--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Ray,
>
> I don't understand that.  If the axes are disabled the DROs should turn yellow (but possibly not until you "ok" the error message to allow the App to continue updating status).
>
> Are you running KMotionCNC or your App?
>
> Regarding default states:  I don't recommend flashing programs to launch on power up if you have a PC it becomes confusing what was flashed in the board when you need to update Versions or replace boards.  Also there will still be a 3 second delay on power up before the Flashed program runs.  Can't you add another master relay or something that keeps everything off until you launch your App and initialize everything?
>
> Regards
> TK
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: himykabibble <jagboy1964@...>
> To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2013 9:07 PM
> Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: USB Underflow?
>
>
>  
> Tom,
>
> What's disturbing about this is that normally, when a limit is hit, I KNOW it's happened, because motion stops, and the DROs for the affected axes change color. I can then over-ride the limit, back off, and continue working. But when the underflow error message comes up, the DROs do not change color, and there is no apparent recovery, other than exiting the app, and re-starting.
>
> This coincided with another unexpected discovery - inductive proximity switches can be trigger by aluminum chips! I didn't expect that!
>
> BTW - I would like to have a few I/Os set to a defined state on power-up, to define the state of some hardware before my full Init has run. This is, unfortunately, required due to the current hardware configuration on my new machine - it sometimes powers up with the spindle enabled (not spinning, thank goodness, but the motor is powered with a low voltage). Can I do that by flashing a simple program into the board?
>
> Regards,
> Ray L.
>
> --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Lee/Ray,
> >
> > I wouldn't classify this as a major bug but rather a misleading error message.  If a limit switch (or anthing else) disables a coordinated motion axis then KFLOP stops processing the coordinated motion buffer and KMotionCNC reports it as a Buffer Underflow.  Version 4.31b (not Version 4.30b) should report it as an Axis Disabled Error instead.
> >
> > If you have Flaky limit switches you will need to fix the switches regardless.  Version 4.31b will just report a more accurate message.
> >
> > There are a number of of modes the Coordinated Motion Libraries can be in when the axis is disabled (Rapids, Downloading Segments, waiting for Motion to complete, MCodes,...) only downloading segments would give the misleading message so you might not have seen the misleading message for other reasons.
> >
> > Regarding initialization: yes - create a C program to configure your axes, enable your axes, and define which axes are in your system as described in Step #4 here:
> >
> > http://dynomotion.com/Help/Mach3Plugin/Mach3.htm
> >
> > The process is the same for Mach3 or KMotionCNC.  Then assign an INIT Button to the C Program.
> >
> > If you have not already done this I'm not sure how your system is ever getting initialized at all.  Please do not Flash parameters to KFLOP as it becomes confusing.  Better to just initialize everything each time (on power up or after a problem) with a C Program.
> >
> > Regarding Disabled Servo Drift: yes - it is hard to command exactly zero motor motion with analog signals.  If you can't adjust out any offsets to get zero motion then you will need connect outputs to disable your amplifiers and add a watchdog type of loop to detect whenever an axis is disabled and disable the amplifier.
> >
> > HTH
> > Regards
> > TK
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Lee Studley <indigo_red@>
> > To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2013 3:18 PM
> > Subject: Re: [DynoMotion] Re: USB Underflow?
> >
> >
> >  
> > Hi Ray,
> >
> > Ok noted and thanks.
> >
> > After reading the manual, I'm going to implement the steps I listed and
> > see how
> > the system responds. ToolSetup does the use user buttons linkup w/ C
> > programs so I'll
> > implement the init, homing, and limit backoff/homing/reset.
> >
> > Best Regards,
> > Lee
> >
> > On 3/31/2013 2:08 PM, himykabibble wrote:
> > > Lee,
> > >
> > > No, it is not intended behavior, and it didn't used to do this. I never saw it until I started using v430.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Ray L.
> > >
> > > --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Lee Studley <indigo_red@> wrote:
> > >> Hi Ray and all,
> > >> After sleeping on it, could it be intended behavior...
> > >> This reasoning being:
> > >>
> > >> Since it is disabling the axes( per the message pop-up),
> > >> a)The axes, servos go openloop being disabled (TODO: so I need to find
> > >> or implement the servo disable driver, like that in the C examples.)
> > >> b)Hence the wandering, so the servo/enable relay should be in the
> > >> disable state.
> > >> c)Hitting a limit means the machine is out of bounds so it will need to
> > >> be re-homed/zeroed anyway( I think?)
> > >> d) QUESTION: So does the "init" button need to be set up to trigger the
> > >> user start up thread's routine intended to re-init the axes like at powerup.
> > >> there's a C example that polls the axes enable states are
> > >> "disable", takes actions. Maybe sense a user "Estop-Clear" button and do
> > >> the init.
> > >> e) if d) this will reset all states and then activate the axes in
> > >> closed-loop like a normal startup.
> > >>
> > >> After lurking with just spouting hardware tips, I need to put my money
> > >> where my mouth is and get familiar with the api like you all have.
> > >>
> > >> I do love this user C threading rtos round-robbin. It so powerful.
> > >>
> > >> After I figure it out I'm going to do an instructable/youtube vid on how
> > >> to setup a generic servo mill, and then a generic closed stepper mill.
> > >> Regards,
> > >> Lee
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On 3/31/2013 6:28 AM, himykabibble wrote:
> > >>> I had the same problem one day this week, due to a flaky limit switch - had to disconnect the limit switches to get any work done. Seems to be something new in v430? Never saw it before.
> > >>>
> > >>> Regards,
> > >>> Ray L.
> > >>>
> > >>> --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "studleylee" <indigo_red@> wrote:
> > >>>> I'm finally getting my mill together after a long delay due to work.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> So this might be old news, but
> > >>>> I'm getting this underflow if I hit any limit. I cant' seem to recover from this unless I cycle power and relaunch KmotionCNC to force a reset. My limits are going to OptoIns 0..2 I have the servo amps enable relay temporarily bypassed, so when this happen the axes
> > >>>> wander slowly like they are open loop.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I'm using version 4.30 and will try the 4.30B version.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I need to do some reading. After a limit is triggered, I need to re-init I guess or re-enable the axes. What does the Init button on the kmotionCNC screen do.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Is there a recommened procedure after a limit is hit?
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Thanks, -Lee
> > >>>>
> > >>>> --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "himykabibble" <jagboy1964@> wrote:
> > >>>>> Tom,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I'll try to give it a try later today. Oddly, I didn't get the underflow at all yesterday.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Regards,
> > >>>>> Ray L.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> > >>>>>> Hi Ray,
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Please test if this V4.31b Test Version corrects the error message you receive. It should now display "Axis Disabled" rather than buffer underflow if a Limit disables an axis. It was somewhat indeterminate which message you might get depending on where it was in the GCode (mid path or waiting to flush) which is why you may have not always seen it before.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> http://dynomotion.com/Software/KMotion431b.exe
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Regards
> > >>>>>> TK
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> ________________________________
> > >>>>>> From: himykabibble <jagboy1964@>
> > >>>>>> To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> > >>>>>> Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 4:55 PM
> > >>>>>> Subject: [DynoMotion] USB Underflow?
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Â
> > >>>>>> When I set the limit state in KmotionCNC, as follows:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> // Enable KM limit handler
> > >>>>>> ch0->LimitSwitchOptions =
> > >>>>>> LIMIT_STOP_ON_POS |
> > >>>>>> LIMIT_DISALLOW_DRIVE |
> > >>>>>> LIMIT_POS_LIMIT_BIT(VLIMIT_POS) |
> > >>>>>> LIMIT_IN_LIMIT;
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> I get an error dialog telling me an under-run has occurred, and suggesting I increase look-ahead. This is while moving a single axis, even at very slow speed. I've never seen this error on my other machine, but this one does this every single time I hit a limit. The only difference I see is this is a new Win7 PC. The KFlop, app and all running threads are still fine after this happens, but I get a series of dialogs that have to be dismissed before I can continue. Ideas?
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Regards,
> > >>>>>> Ray L.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> ------------------------------------
> > >>>
> > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>

 

Tom,

I'm running my app. It's looking at the axis enable flags to change the colors on the DROs. Why would that stop working when this occurs?

I will change the hardware, but just didn't want to do it right now. I'm looking for a band-aid fix until I have time to fix it right. So if I set one of the "launch thread on power-up" check-boxes, it will basically program the code for that thread, as specified in the C program window, into FLASH?

Regards,
Ray L.

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Ray,
>
> I don't understand that.  If the axes are disabled the DROs should turn yellow (but possibly not until you "ok" the error message to allow the App to continue updating status).
>
> Are you running KMotionCNC or your App?
>
> Regarding default states:  I don't recommend flashing programs to launch on power up if you have a PC it becomes confusing what was flashed in the board when you need to update Versions or replace boards.  Also there will still be a 3 second delay on power up before the Flashed program runs.  Can't you add another master relay or something that keeps everything off until you launch your App and initialize everything?
>
> Regards
> TK
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: himykabibble <jagboy1964@...>
> To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2013 9:07 PM
> Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: USB Underflow?
>
>
>  
> Tom,
>
> What's disturbing about this is that normally, when a limit is hit, I KNOW it's happened, because motion stops, and the DROs for the affected axes change color. I can then over-ride the limit, back off, and continue working. But when the underflow error message comes up, the DROs do not change color, and there is no apparent recovery, other than exiting the app, and re-starting.
>
> This coincided with another unexpected discovery - inductive proximity switches can be trigger by aluminum chips! I didn't expect that!
>
> BTW - I would like to have a few I/Os set to a defined state on power-up, to define the state of some hardware before my full Init has run. This is, unfortunately, required due to the current hardware configuration on my new machine - it sometimes powers up with the spindle enabled (not spinning, thank goodness, but the motor is powered with a low voltage). Can I do that by flashing a simple program into the board?
>
> Regards,
> Ray L.
>
> --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Lee/Ray,
> >
> > I wouldn't classify this as a major bug but rather a misleading error message.  If a limit switch (or anthing else) disables a coordinated motion axis then KFLOP stops processing the coordinated motion buffer and KMotionCNC reports it as a Buffer Underflow.  Version 4.31b (not Version 4.30b) should report it as an Axis Disabled Error instead.
> >
> > If you have Flaky limit switches you will need to fix the switches regardless.  Version 4.31b will just report a more accurate message.
> >
> > There are a number of of modes the Coordinated Motion Libraries can be in when the axis is disabled (Rapids, Downloading Segments, waiting for Motion to complete, MCodes,...) only downloading segments would give the misleading message so you might not have seen the misleading message for other reasons.
> >
> > Regarding initialization: yes - create a C program to configure your axes, enable your axes, and define which axes are in your system as described in Step #4 here:
> >
> > http://dynomotion.com/Help/Mach3Plugin/Mach3.htm
> >
> > The process is the same for Mach3 or KMotionCNC.  Then assign an INIT Button to the C Program.
> >
> > If you have not already done this I'm not sure how your system is ever getting initialized at all.  Please do not Flash parameters to KFLOP as it becomes confusing.  Better to just initialize everything each time (on power up or after a problem) with a C Program.
> >
> > Regarding Disabled Servo Drift: yes - it is hard to command exactly zero motor motion with analog signals.  If you can't adjust out any offsets to get zero motion then you will need connect outputs to disable your amplifiers and add a watchdog type of loop to detect whenever an axis is disabled and disable the amplifier.
> >
> > HTH
> > Regards
> > TK
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Lee Studley <indigo_red@>
> > To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2013 3:18 PM
> > Subject: Re: [DynoMotion] Re: USB Underflow?
> >
> >
> >  
> > Hi Ray,
> >
> > Ok noted and thanks.
> >
> > After reading the manual, I'm going to implement the steps I listed and
> > see how
> > the system responds. ToolSetup does the use user buttons linkup w/ C
> > programs so I'll
> > implement the init, homing, and limit backoff/homing/reset.
> >
> > Best Regards,
> > Lee
> >
> > On 3/31/2013 2:08 PM, himykabibble wrote:
> > > Lee,
> > >
> > > No, it is not intended behavior, and it didn't used to do this. I never saw it until I started using v430.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Ray L.
> > >
> > > --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Lee Studley <indigo_red@> wrote:
> > >> Hi Ray and all,
> > >> After sleeping on it, could it be intended behavior...
> > >> This reasoning being:
> > >>
> > >> Since it is disabling the axes( per the message pop-up),
> > >> a)The axes, servos go openloop being disabled (TODO: so I need to find
> > >> or implement the servo disable driver, like that in the C examples.)
> > >> b)Hence the wandering, so the servo/enable relay should be in the
> > >> disable state.
> > >> c)Hitting a limit means the machine is out of bounds so it will need to
> > >> be re-homed/zeroed anyway( I think?)
> > >> d) QUESTION: So does the "init" button need to be set up to trigger the
> > >> user start up thread's routine intended to re-init the axes like at powerup.
> > >> there's a C example that polls the axes enable states are
> > >> "disable", takes actions. Maybe sense a user "Estop-Clear" button and do
> > >> the init.
> > >> e) if d) this will reset all states and then activate the axes in
> > >> closed-loop like a normal startup.
> > >>
> > >> After lurking with just spouting hardware tips, I need to put my money
> > >> where my mouth is and get familiar with the api like you all have.
> > >>
> > >> I do love this user C threading rtos round-robbin. It so powerful.
> > >>
> > >> After I figure it out I'm going to do an instructable/youtube vid on how
> > >> to setup a generic servo mill, and then a generic closed stepper mill.
> > >> Regards,
> > >> Lee
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On 3/31/2013 6:28 AM, himykabibble wrote:
> > >>> I had the same problem one day this week, due to a flaky limit switch - had to disconnect the limit switches to get any work done. Seems to be something new in v430? Never saw it before.
> > >>>
> > >>> Regards,
> > >>> Ray L.
> > >>>
> > >>> --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "studleylee" <indigo_red@> wrote:
> > >>>> I'm finally getting my mill together after a long delay due to work.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> So this might be old news, but
> > >>>> I'm getting this underflow if I hit any limit. I cant' seem to recover from this unless I cycle power and relaunch KmotionCNC to force a reset. My limits are going to OptoIns 0..2 I have the servo amps enable relay temporarily bypassed, so when this happen the axes
> > >>>> wander slowly like they are open loop.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I'm using version 4.30 and will try the 4.30B version.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I need to do some reading. After a limit is triggered, I need to re-init I guess or re-enable the axes. What does the Init button on the kmotionCNC screen do.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Is there a recommened procedure after a limit is hit?
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Thanks, -Lee
> > >>>>
> > >>>> --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "himykabibble" <jagboy1964@> wrote:
> > >>>>> Tom,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I'll try to give it a try later today. Oddly, I didn't get the underflow at all yesterday.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Regards,
> > >>>>> Ray L.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> > >>>>>> Hi Ray,
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Please test if this V4.31b Test Version corrects the error message you receive. It should now display "Axis Disabled" rather than buffer underflow if a Limit disables an axis. It was somewhat indeterminate which message you might get depending on where it was in the GCode (mid path or waiting to flush) which is why you may have not always seen it before.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> http://dynomotion.com/Software/KMotion431b.exe
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Regards
> > >>>>>> TK
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> ________________________________
> > >>>>>> From: himykabibble <jagboy1964@>
> > >>>>>> To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> > >>>>>> Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 4:55 PM
> > >>>>>> Subject: [DynoMotion] USB Underflow?
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Â
> > >>>>>> When I set the limit state in KmotionCNC, as follows:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> // Enable KM limit handler
> > >>>>>> ch0->LimitSwitchOptions =
> > >>>>>> LIMIT_STOP_ON_POS |
> > >>>>>> LIMIT_DISALLOW_DRIVE |
> > >>>>>> LIMIT_POS_LIMIT_BIT(VLIMIT_POS) |
> > >>>>>> LIMIT_IN_LIMIT;
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> I get an error dialog telling me an under-run has occurred, and suggesting I increase look-ahead. This is while moving a single axis, even at very slow speed. I've never seen this error on my other machine, but this one does this every single time I hit a limit. The only difference I see is this is a new Win7 PC. The KFlop, app and all running threads are still fine after this happens, but I get a series of dialogs that have to be dismissed before I can continue. Ideas?
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Regards,
> > >>>>>> Ray L.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> ------------------------------------
> > >>>
> > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>